Comments on: Debian Etch: Solid, Crufty, Some Assembly Required http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29 Thu, 01 Jul 2010 18:18:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: logicalhippo http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-15213 logicalhippo Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:36:08 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-15213 xeyes!?! cruft!?!?! Are you crazy! No system is complete without xeyes! How else will the Boss know what you're doing? xeyes!?! cruft!?!?!
Are you crazy! No system is complete without xeyes! How else will the Boss know what you’re doing?

]]> By: penk - Keep on rockin’ in the free world » Blog Archive » 本日書籤 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1822 penk - Keep on rockin’ in the free world » Blog Archive » 本日書籤 Mon, 29 May 2006 21:05:01 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1822 [...] http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29 [...] [...] http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29 [...]

]]> By: KRiSX http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1718 KRiSX Wed, 24 May 2006 03:01:11 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1718 I have just recently ditched windows after using windows and linux on and off for many years. I waited until SuSE 10.1 came out to do this... well... suse 10.1 lasted all of about 2 hours on my machine. Trying to stick with it, i tried to install the latest kubuntu build (flight 6 or 7 at the time i think) from the live cd and it failed... Then i thought... mmmm... why not just use Debian, i've used it before... so lets give it a go... I installed Debian etch using net install, it installed extremely fast using a mirror on my isp and i had a fully working system with gnome and openoffice and many other apps... it was very quick and everything worked! I then installed kde and started configuring what i needed. Its now been 2 or 3 weeks and i'm still running debian etch... mind you i now have a combination of etch (testing) and unstable (whatever the unstable branch is called) packages installed and my system is running great... i have had a few sound issues... but they are mainly kde related, not debian. I think debian is a great distro... i plan to keep using it as long as possible or until i decide i need windows again... I have just recently ditched windows after using windows and linux on and off for many years. I waited until SuSE 10.1 came out to do this… well… suse 10.1 lasted all of about 2 hours on my machine.

Trying to stick with it, i tried to install the latest kubuntu build (flight 6 or 7 at the time i think) from the live cd and it failed…

Then i thought… mmmm… why not just use Debian, i’ve used it before… so lets give it a go…

I installed Debian etch using net install, it installed extremely fast using a mirror on my isp and i had a fully working system with gnome and openoffice and many other apps… it was very quick and everything worked! I then installed kde and started configuring what i needed.

Its now been 2 or 3 weeks and i’m still running debian etch… mind you i now have a combination of etch (testing) and unstable (whatever the unstable branch is called) packages installed and my system is running great…

i have had a few sound issues… but they are mainly kde related, not debian.

I think debian is a great distro… i plan to keep using it as long as possible or until i decide i need windows again…

]]> By: James Dixon http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1699 James Dixon Tue, 23 May 2006 21:15:45 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1699 > ” but it seems that was in fact your intent, however much “one word: Slackware” may have rubbed me the wrong way. Hey, I get cranky sometimes. As do we all. Given that this is a Debian oriented thread, I probably should have been more verbose. I simply thought the intent was obvious from the context. I should know better by now. > ” but it seems that was in fact your intent, however much “one word: Slackware” may have rubbed me the wrong way. Hey, I get cranky sometimes.

As do we all. Given that this is a Debian oriented thread, I probably should have been more verbose. I simply thought the intent was obvious from the context. I should know better by now.

]]> By: AC http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1695 AC Tue, 23 May 2006 20:23:01 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1695 James, That's been my experience building Xfce from upstream as well. Debian and Slackware tend to go with the vanilla defaults. I see TFA's author has added a link now to a Xubuntu screenshot, illustrating what is in fact a far from normal configuration of Xfce, one that is a (in my view) grotesque imitation of GNOME. btw, I no doubt overreacted to your Slackware remarks. I might have preferred something like, "There are comparably stable distros out there, Slackware being a noteworthy example," but it seems that was in fact your intent, however much "one word: Slackware" may have rubbed me the wrong way. Hey, I get cranky sometimes. James,
That’s been my experience building Xfce from upstream as well. Debian and Slackware tend to go with the vanilla defaults. I see TFA’s author has added a link now to a Xubuntu screenshot, illustrating what is in fact a far from normal configuration of Xfce, one that is a (in my view) grotesque imitation of GNOME.

btw, I no doubt overreacted to your Slackware remarks. I might have preferred something like, “There are comparably stable distros out there, Slackware being a noteworthy example,” but it seems that was in fact your intent, however much “one word: Slackware” may have rubbed me the wrong way. Hey, I get cranky sometimes.

]]> By: James Dixon http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1693 James Dixon Tue, 23 May 2006 20:06:32 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1693 > What is it with Slackware users? A discussion of Debian and some Slackware user has to chime in, as if Slackware were the only stable GNU/Linux out there, as if there were no such thing as, say… Debian stable? Debian stable and Slackware are approximately equal in stability. The poster had tried Debian stable and wanted to know why there weren't any OTHER stable distributions. He's obviously never tried Slackware. If this is supposed to be a Debian only discussion, I guess the other posters will want to remove their references to Ubuntu, Macs, and Windows. > What is it with Slackware users? A discussion of Debian and some Slackware user has to chime in, as if Slackware were the only stable GNU/Linux out there, as if there were no such thing as, say… Debian stable?

Debian stable and Slackware are approximately equal in stability. The poster had tried Debian stable and wanted to know why there weren’t any OTHER stable distributions. He’s obviously never tried Slackware. If this is supposed to be a Debian only discussion, I guess the other posters will want to remove their references to Ubuntu, Macs, and Windows.

]]> By: James Dixon http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1692 James Dixon Tue, 23 May 2006 19:56:49 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1692 > Then is should have an applications menu, that’s been in it since somewhere in the 4.x series. I'm running 4.2.something, and it doesn't have an application menu in the same sense Gnome and KDE do. It has a menu, but you have to right click on the desktop to bring it up. That's probably not what he was expecting. > Then is should have an applications menu, that’s been in it since somewhere in the 4.x series.

I’m running 4.2.something, and it doesn’t have an application menu in the same sense Gnome and KDE do. It has a menu, but you have to right click on the desktop to bring it up. That’s probably not what he was expecting.

]]> By: AC http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1639 AC Tue, 23 May 2006 09:20:08 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1639 Bert, I suspect you installed a minimal system and then x-window-system (I think that metapackage includes xeyes. I know x-window-system-core does not) and fluxbox. Whereas I believe the reviewer used tasksel and chose Desktop Environment. That's one of the beauties of Debian: there are a lot of ways to go about setting up a system. Some (tasksel) require fewer choices and will likely install more packages one might call cruft, while others require making more choices but give you precisely what you ask for. Metapackages provide a nice middle ground. Bert, I suspect you installed a minimal system and then x-window-system (I think that metapackage includes xeyes. I know x-window-system-core does not) and fluxbox. Whereas I believe the reviewer used tasksel and chose Desktop Environment. That’s one of the beauties of Debian: there are a lot of ways to go about setting up a system. Some (tasksel) require fewer choices and will likely install more packages one might call cruft, while others require making more choices but give you precisely what you ask for. Metapackages provide a nice middle ground.

]]> By: Bert http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1638 Bert Tue, 23 May 2006 08:57:32 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1638 I guess Debian is not ideal if you want gnome or kde and the latest versions of all apps. But, then again, when I look the DistroWatch pages of Ubuntu and SUSE, I see that many application versions are marked in black (which means that they're obsolete) while the up-to-date apps are marked in green. In fact, I didn't find any distro where all applications would be the latest versions. So Ubuntu and SUSE are no better than Debian in this respect. But I don't like gnome or kde. Instead, I prefer FLUXBOX that makes a fast, good-looking and easy to use desktop. I use Debian testing and of the extra "cruft" that the reviewer mentions (mutt, sh, tcsh, xeyes) only xeyes got installed automatically. I had to install mutt manually and I don't have sh or tcsh. Debian gives me all the apps I want -- and only those. Ubuntu, on the other hand, installs by default all kinds of cruft that I don't need or want. I haven't tried SUSE. I guess Debian is not ideal if you want gnome or kde and the latest versions of all apps. But, then again, when I look the DistroWatch pages of Ubuntu and SUSE, I see that many application versions are marked in black (which means that they’re obsolete) while the up-to-date apps are marked in green. In fact, I didn’t find any distro where all applications would be the latest versions. So Ubuntu and SUSE are no better than Debian in this respect.

But I don’t like gnome or kde. Instead, I prefer FLUXBOX that makes a fast, good-looking and easy to use desktop. I use Debian testing and of the extra “cruft” that the reviewer mentions (mutt, sh, tcsh, xeyes) only xeyes got installed automatically. I had to install mutt manually and I don’t have sh or tcsh. Debian gives me all the apps I want — and only those. Ubuntu, on the other hand, installs by default all kinds of cruft that I don’t need or want. I haven’t tried SUSE.

]]> By: Michel http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1633 Michel Tue, 23 May 2006 06:30:19 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1633 "He undoubtedly expected an “Applications” menu in XFCE because of the atrocious job Xubuntu has done of “improving” it: making it look and feel more like GNOME. The XFCE Debian gives you is the way that XFCE’s developers ship it," Then is should have an applications menu, that's been in it since somewhere in the 4.x series. It is a great environment, but on a fast computer GNOME makes me more productive, so I'm only using it on older hardware. “He undoubtedly expected an “Applications” menu in XFCE because of the atrocious job Xubuntu has done of “improving” it: making it look and feel more like GNOME. The XFCE Debian gives you is the way that XFCE’s developers ship it,”

Then is should have an applications menu, that’s been in it since somewhere in the 4.x series.

It is a great environment, but on a fast computer GNOME makes me more productive, so I’m only using it on older hardware.

]]> By: Glenn Greenfield http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1629 Glenn Greenfield Tue, 23 May 2006 03:25:09 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1629 I love Debian and I agree, it needs some polish. This is where Kanotix comes in. It's Debian Sid all the way with a few added things like easy nVidia & ATI driver installation. How easy? CTRL+ALT+F1 su install-nvidia-debian.sh Preconfigured KDE w/ nice selection of usable applications. Many wireless cards/adapters 'just work'. But with Kanotix you don't have the fork problem. You use standard Debian repos just like always. In fact you can easily add the Kanotix repo to your Debian Sid installation. Latest Kanotix kernel is version 2.6.16-16. At least give it a try. A few of the drivers from the last Kanotix kernel I checked out: ivtv, lirc-modules, ltmodem-modules, madwifi-modules, ndiswrapper-modules, omnibook-modules, ppscsi-modules, qc-usb, rfswitch-module, rt2400, rt2500, rt2570, rtl8180, shfs-module, spca5xx-modules, sqcam-modules, unionfs-module, zd1211-module and more. Lots of kernel patches including (but not limited to) sony_acpi4, pctvsat, acpi-dsdt-initrd, cpufreq-speedstep, t-sinus_111card, bootsplash, acpi-ec-nospinlock, radeon-gart-fix, reiser4 and more. If you need help there is of course a forum but also a very strong IRC presence where you may literally be overwhelemed by competent people willing to assist you with any questions you might have. It's not often that you'll be told to RTFM. Who'd like to see a distro challenge between Kubuntu & Kanotix? I love Debian and I agree, it needs some polish. This is where Kanotix comes in. It’s Debian Sid all the way with a few added things like easy nVidia & ATI driver installation. How easy?

CTRL+ALT+F1
su
install-nvidia-debian.sh

Preconfigured KDE w/ nice selection of usable applications. Many wireless cards/adapters ‘just work’. But with Kanotix you don’t have the fork problem. You use standard Debian repos just like always. In fact you can easily add the Kanotix repo to your Debian Sid installation.

Latest Kanotix kernel is version 2.6.16-16. At least give it a try.

A few of the drivers from the last Kanotix kernel I checked out:

ivtv, lirc-modules, ltmodem-modules, madwifi-modules, ndiswrapper-modules, omnibook-modules, ppscsi-modules, qc-usb, rfswitch-module, rt2400, rt2500, rt2570, rtl8180, shfs-module, spca5xx-modules, sqcam-modules, unionfs-module, zd1211-module and more.

Lots of kernel patches including (but not limited to)
sony_acpi4, pctvsat, acpi-dsdt-initrd, cpufreq-speedstep, t-sinus_111card, bootsplash, acpi-ec-nospinlock, radeon-gart-fix, reiser4 and more.

If you need help there is of course a forum but also a very strong IRC presence where you may literally be overwhelemed by competent people willing to assist you with any questions you might have. It’s not often that you’ll be told to RTFM.

Who’d like to see a distro challenge between Kubuntu & Kanotix?

]]> By: AC http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1627 AC Tue, 23 May 2006 01:27:35 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1627 What is it with Slackware users? A discussion of Debian and some Slackware user has to chime in, as if Slackware were the only stable GNU/Linux out there, as if there were no such thing as, say... Debian stable? I'm not denying that Slackware is pretty stable in what it offers. I think Debian is as stable while offerring quite a bit more, but I'm not even arguing that. I'm just pointing out the silliness of the Slackware zombie whose kneejerk response is to always suggest that Slackware is the most stable system out there. What is it with Slackware users? A discussion of Debian and some Slackware user has to chime in, as if Slackware were the only stable GNU/Linux out there, as if there were no such thing as, say… Debian stable? I’m not denying that Slackware is pretty stable in what it offers. I think Debian is as stable while offerring quite a bit more, but I’m not even arguing that. I’m just pointing out the silliness of the Slackware zombie whose kneejerk response is to always suggest that Slackware is the most stable system out there.

]]> By: James Dixon http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1626 James Dixon Tue, 23 May 2006 00:52:50 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1626 > Stability over buggy new features is the way to go.. One word: Slackware. > Stability over buggy new features is the way to go..

One word: Slackware.

]]> By: C.J. http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1618 C.J. Mon, 22 May 2006 23:27:41 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1618 Sarge is the stable one. But Debian's never been all that good as a desktop OS. Sarge is the stable one. But Debian’s never been all that good as a desktop OS.

]]> By: AC http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1611 AC Mon, 22 May 2006 22:44:29 +0000 http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=29#comment-1611 He undoubtedly expected an "Applications" menu in XFCE because of the atrocious job Xubuntu has done of "improving" it: making it look and feel more like GNOME. The XFCE Debian gives you is the way that XFCE's developers ship it, very reminiscent of the CDE, which inspired it. And a superior interface to GNOME, IMHO. He undoubtedly expected an “Applications” menu in XFCE because of the atrocious job Xubuntu has done of “improving” it: making it look and feel more like GNOME. The XFCE Debian gives you is the way that XFCE’s developers ship it, very reminiscent of the CDE, which inspired it. And a superior interface to GNOME, IMHO.

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